Andrew Lloyd Webber

Paul Treasure wrote:
>
> His earlier works, especially Superstar and Evita, are some
> of the best musicals ever written. However, he does reach a
> certain point (roughly around Cats) where the quality of his
> music starts to drop off a bit, and is replaced by absolutely
> brilliant production values.

I think the word you're looking for is commercialism.

>LetÂ’s be honest hereÂ… do you
> really come out of a Lloyd Webber humming the tunes? Or do
> you come out humming the scenery? I know thatÂ’s what I did
> with Phantom.

Well actually, most of the time I knew the music before I saw the show - thanks to the isolation of Perth. :-p And I must say that he is very hummable. Most of Lloyd Webbers tunes go where you expect them to go, hence memorability. Most of Sondheim doesn't do that. Yes, granted there are some tunes that do, but most don't. You can't tell me "Sunday in the Park with George" (the song) and "Into the Woods" (the song) and most of the Pacific Overtures score is hummable.

> Since Phantom his quality has really waned, and he has
> started writing that even more pernicious style: the
> Power-Ballad Musical (eighty percent of the score is tripe
> but those three songs are brilliant!)

I disagree. Aspects of Love and Sunset Boulevard are great scores as a whole despite the number of "hit songs" in them. Ok, there are some crap songs in there too, eg. Every Movie's A Circus and his other two shows, Whistle Down the Wind and The Beautiful Game have more crap songs than good songs, however, most composers are guilty of that, classical and musical theatre. Just look at boring Brahms or some of Mozart, or Richard Rodgers, Claude-Michel Schoenberg and even the beloved Sondheim. They all have crap songs.

> In many ways the success of the High Concept Lloyd Webber
> ushered in a dark age for the musical. The musical was NOT
> dead or dying before Lloyd Webber and co. It was actually
> quite vibrant and very popular.

*sigh* Thats not what I meant. I meant that the public majority were suddenly interested in musical theatre again. Not just the people interested in musicals and theatre. Everyone knows who he is. Can that be said of Sondheim (believe me, its true), Alan Menken, Stephen Schwartz, Jason Robert Brown, Charles Strouse, Jerry Bock and even Kander and Ebb? The public majority do not know who these people are, but they sure as hell have heard of Lloyd Webber. (I'm not dissing the above composers because I love them all - I'm just attempting to make a point. :-) Most people know their shows, not who they are.

>But during the eighties and nineties people stopped seeing musicals >unless they were
> bigger and brighter with more effects and stunning costumes
> and who really cares about the music anyway!

I think that is across the arts really. How often to people see straight plays now? Or local theatre in general? Or shows without big star names? I think the price of tickets has come into the "stoppage" of seeing theatre. But I'll let that point slide at the moment. See my other posts. :-)

> Let us have a quick look at the Tony winning musicals BC
> (Before Cats):
> Nine; 42nd Street; Evita; Sweeney Todd; AinÂ’t MisbehavinÂ’;
> Annie; A Chorus Line.
> We have two of the greatest musicals EVER written (Sweeney
> Todd and A Chorus Line) as well as some of the most popular
> (Annie and 42nd Street).
> Does this really look like a dying art form to you?!

See the above comment about "death". I'm not denying anything. Have you noticed that all bar a Lloyd Webber show (Evita) are American? Perhaps I should have mentioned earlier that my viewpoint of Lloyd Webbers impact on musical theatre is on _British_ musical theatre scene, not Broadway.

> Sondheim took the high art end of the battlefield, producing
> musically and artistically challenging works that maintained
> the genre right to be called an art form (and not just
> entertainment).

Yes. And how often do these get performed? Art, yes, but intellectually or musically accessible to the common man? No.

>Sunday in the Park with George, for example,
> is VERY esoteric musical, and yet I know of no one who has
> seen it who hasnÂ’t loved it!

Well, I don't particularly like it. I think its too complex for its own good. Its not particularly "entertaing" either - no big dance numbers. He he... And I don't see Sunday being revived too often.

>Into the Woods, while being
> quite tuneful does ask some very important literary
> questions, about the nature of fairy tale, and how important
> is it to us in our daily lives. And do I even need to mention
> Assassins?

Ditto about the "art" factor.

> Menken, on the other hand, wrote mainly for the screen, but
> still managed to produce some of the most memorable and truly
> entertaining scores of the period. Little Mermaid, Beauty and
> the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas (nice score shame about the
> film) etc. To the point where the stage version of Beauty and
> the Beast is now the second longest-running musical on
> Broadway, celebrating its tenth anniversary only a couple of
> months ago. While the effects from B&B can be considered
> impressive, it is actually the brilliant score that people
> remember.

Yes, however it is COMMERCIAL music, written for film, and being such wonderful films, of course they are going to make wonderful stage shows, especially with Disney and their squillions of dollars. Now, you were mentioning something about "bigger and brighter effects", "stunning costumes" and "brilliant production" and "who cares about the music anyway"....? ;-)

> With the Menken camp comes his Disney cohort Elton John.
> There are only two composers with more than one show running
> on Broadway at the moment: Menken (B&B and Little Shop of
> Horrors) and Elton John (The Lion King and Aida).

Well, Little Shop is closing soon and Aida would have to be one of the WORST scores I've ever heard. God knows why that is still running. And I have to say that The Lion King will die a death too once thats closed. The only thing keeping it running is its incredible staging, breathtaking sets, costumes... I'm having de ja vous. The music in the Lion King is quite interesting. It mixes gorgeous African chant with the tacky Elton John tunes. I must confess that I cringed when "I just can't wait to be King" started. BRING BACK THE AFRICAN MUSIC! Anyhoo....

> Funnily enough both Menken and John have worked with Lloyd
> WebberÂ’s original and best lyricist Tim Rice.
> Food for thought, maybe it is actually the lyricist that
> makes the show great and not the composer?

Yes, Chess, Starmania (or Tycoon) and Blondel were running successes all over the world. :-)

>IÂ’ve always said I
> thought Sondheim was a lyricist who writes his own music not
> a composer who writes his own wordsÂ…

Yes I agree, and he's brilliant at it too, despite the fact that a good deal of his music is quite unsingable to the average singer. Thank GOD that the general public don't destroy his music by singing it badly! Which is more than I can say for other people, including Lloyd Webber unfortunately.

> I hope in my rambling way I have managed to demonstrate some
> of the reasons why Lloyd Webber is considered so lowly by
> many. As I said, even many ALW haters will agree about the
> brilliance of the AL-W/Time Rice collaborations, but from
> there onÂ…

All I have to say is..... STILL RUNNING! ;-)

> HereÂ’s to hoping that the man still has a couple of GREAT
> musicals in him. His Variations and his Requiem will always
> be two of my favourite pieces of late twentieth century
> music, but a lot of his musicals do leave a lot to be desired.

Hmmm........ anyway, thank you for replying. Its nice to finally have a serious discussion about this subject. Anyone else?