Hazers and Actors
Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 09:23 amkarlae20 posts in thread
Hazers and Actors
Wed, 28 Jan 2009, 09:23 amSo I'm doing a small musical theatre concert.
Got a few lights, nice cavenous black box space with a few wings either side, no set what so ever and no cyc, so not much to really work with.
Figured some haze would give a nice atmosphere and help to give the space some more depth and intrigue.
This is not an uncommon circumstance I find myself in as most of the venues I have worked in as a lighting designer have been like this and I generally always use a bit of haze.
I see it used in professional theatre, dance, television, most areas of performance really, but in the amateur musical theatre scene, I always get the same response from the actors.
"It's making me cough!".."It's affecting my singing!".."I have a dry throat".. etc etc.
So initially I was concerned that maybe the use of haze really does affect performers respiratory system, but then I've been told by many other people (techs, actors, directors, average joes) that it is purely a psychological thing and that simply seeing the haze makes a person feel as if they are slightly asfixiated.
The fluid doesn't not emit a toxic haze and unless you have a severe allegy to whatever is in the fluid, then it should not affect you.
What are your thoughts, as either a performer, director or tech?
karlaeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 09:23 am
So I'm doing a small musical theatre concert.
Got a few lights, nice cavenous black box space with a few wings either side, no set what so ever and no cyc, so not much to really work with.
Figured some haze would give a nice atmosphere and help to give the space some more depth and intrigue.
This is not an uncommon circumstance I find myself in as most of the venues I have worked in as a lighting designer have been like this and I generally always use a bit of haze.
I see it used in professional theatre, dance, television, most areas of performance really, but in the amateur musical theatre scene, I always get the same response from the actors.
"It's making me cough!".."It's affecting my singing!".."I have a dry throat".. etc etc.
So initially I was concerned that maybe the use of haze really does affect performers respiratory system, but then I've been told by many other people (techs, actors, directors, average joes) that it is purely a psychological thing and that simply seeing the haze makes a person feel as if they are slightly asfixiated.
The fluid doesn't not emit a toxic haze and unless you have a severe allegy to whatever is in the fluid, then it should not affect you.
What are your thoughts, as either a performer, director or tech?
Walter PlingeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 09:49 am
haze
I for one am aversely affected by haze, and never expected to be as I knew it was non-toxic. When I played Lady Macbeth the smoke machine used made my eyes and nose run badly. Lucky the tears fitted the performance! :-D
karlaeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 10:58 am
Not that I am doubting that
Not that I am doubting that you were affected by the smoke machine, but can I ask what sort of proximity you were to the machine? I know that standing directly in front of a hazer or smoke machine with you face 20cm from the output can have some effects... not saying that you were.
NaWed, 28 Jan 2009, 12:35 pm
I've used haze before, as a
I've used haze before, as a director and as a general tech; never seemed to have a problem regarding health issues. A few things come to mind: are you using the haze machine correctly? Are you using the correct amount of fluid? What kind of machine are you using? How old is it? How often does it get repaired or tested/tagged (or whatever it is you do to hazers to check they're working correctly)?
... Perhaps the machine needs to be fixed or the incorrect amount of fluid is being used... or something is causing the machine itself to malfunction?
Jellyfish shadow puppet for sale at
Puppets in Melbourne
karlaeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 01:36 pm
Na, The fluid is fine and
Na,
The fluid is fine and is the correct type of fluid, the fans are clean, im not blowing it into peoples face, its a jem technohaze but i have used uniques, df50s, swefogs, le maitres and martin hazers etc etc and they all get the same response. I'm talking about haze in general! It is test and tagged under australian standards every 3 months and was prepped to check it is working properly before it went out.
The only 'incorrect amount of fluid' that can be used is none at all.
So you've never had performers or musos bitch and moan that the haze is annoying or dramatically wave their arms around trying to fan away the haze?
NaWed, 28 Jan 2009, 01:55 pm
Just double checking... it
Just double checking... it never hurts to ask the obvious questions. ;)
As for my own experience, no, never had anyone complain about haze other than the usual 'it smells a bit odd' thing. Last time I used haze it was for my puppetry show; we had the haze machine in a 50 seat venue, stage was about 3m wide by 2m deep, no wings, one door to the venue, and the hazer was about 1/2 metre away from the actors (nozzle pointed towards stage left). No complaints.
Jellyfish shadow puppet for sale at
Puppets in Melbourne
Walter PlingeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 02:42 pm
i can vouch for the fact
i can vouch for the fact that haze machines CAN affect your voice... but in my experience it has only been when i have already been sick and the haze has simply seemed to accelerate the drying of my throat... i'd say in general though... if the performers are taking care of themselves (hydrated and healthy) then there really shouldn't be a problem...
as a few techies i know would say they need to... "toughen up princess!"
LabrugWed, 28 Jan 2009, 04:14 pm
Suffering
People who already suffer from some form of respiratory issue such as Asthma, Hayfever and the like most likely will suffer adverse side effects from haze like machines. I personally get hayfever and find that my usual medication can over come issues with haze machines. As for other types of conditions, well I would not be prepared to test asthma suffers ...
Check the conditions of you actors and their personal feelings before implementing.
Absit invidia (and DFT :nono:)
Jeff Watkins
David AshtonWed, 28 Jan 2009, 06:56 pm
haze
There are two totally different types of hazer, the expensive type, $2000+, "crack" mineral oil into minute droplets which hang in the air while the cheaper ranges are basically smoke machines which vaporize a alcohol/distilled water liquid and feed that into a fan to disperse it.In my opinion you should not be aware of haze, except to help you see the beams of your lights, I like to produce it away from the stage and let it drift on to the stage, not have it pouring into the centre of the stage.Of course people can be allergic to practically anything, but there is certainly a psychological factor involved.
karlaeWed, 28 Jan 2009, 07:43 pm
It is tricky to get the
It is tricky to get the placement of the hazer right when you have to consider things like the size of the stage (grid height and width) and whether there's airconditioning, vents or temperature issues.
Ive got mine placed at about midstage OP, I suppose I could have put it a bit further upstage behind the rear curtain but that's too much effort. I'll just direct it more upstage from where it is currently sitting and see if that helps.
RapunzelSun, 8 Feb 2009, 12:36 pm
On the other hand
Not wishing to discount the small group of people who genuinely have an allergy or bad reaction to the stuff but....
...on the other hand. Picture this, Covent Garden, the opera house. Opera singers are the touchiest people in regard to anything that might affect their voices. On the whole I'd say rightly so ... their voice is their livelihood. I've known some to cheerfully stride onto stage and actively inhale the haze. Some smoke as well(like chimneys!). Others kick up a fuss during the tech rehearsals and then take whatever remedy they need to get themselves sorted. They recognise the benefit of a touch of haze in the atmosphere, and, literally, suck it up!
You can get some really nice smelling fluids too, nicest I ever came across was "fresh cut grass". Mmmmmmm, very evocative.
There will always be split medical opinion too, just like with strobes. Some say strobe lighting will set off epileptic fits in those who are prone to them, but most research so far indicates that the strobe has to be a certain frequency to trigger most fits, it also indicates that it is also a matter of perception. Tell a person that a strobe effect will trigger a fit and ... some people will have one, regardless of the strobe frequency.
Personally I say stick to your guns, keep the haze. There are some right "diva's" out there who are reacting to voodoo science. We shouldn't ignore the percentage who are genuinely affected, including those who may be temporarily under the weather already and more prone to extra irritations, but most performers and technicians have no problems whatsoever.
Rapunzel
"Life is too short to stuff a mushroom"
karlaeMon, 9 Feb 2009, 12:00 pm
I did not realise that
I did not realise that about strobes! I mean, I knew that they can cause people to have fits/seizures etc, but I didn't realise it was debatable based on frequency and psychology. There you go.
Not saying I am going to use this against anyone who suffers from Epilepsy - having recently done a production which had a member of the cast with epilepsy (that I didn't know about)and was playing around with some point strobes for a good half hour before someone told me about it! Low and behold she never ended up having a fit because of the strobes, but instead had one because of the fluorescent lights in the green room!
Maybe that "Theatregeek/Ramblings of a techie" guy could post a blog about such issues with haze/strobes/dry ice/uv etc!
David AshtonTue, 10 Feb 2009, 07:19 pm
Strobes
Again, whilst it is said that strobes call fits, 10 years in disco and 30 years in theatre, I have yet to see an epileptic have an attack in a strobe light situation, so it is a theoretical possibility but do not overreact to it.
LabrugTue, 10 Feb 2009, 09:57 pm
Actual
I have seen the effects of Strobe and Epiletic fits. It is real. It is somewhat more specific than most people are aware. This site link covers the basics.
http://www.birket.com/strobes/Library/Strobes%20v%20Epilepsy,%20rev070704.htm
EDIT Above link stopped working. Try..
Absit invidia (and DFT :nono:)
Jeff Watkins
TaureanWed, 11 Feb 2009, 12:01 am
Ditto - me neither
I have found the same as David, also having employed strobes in Disco and Theatre (but not for quite the same time frame) I have not YET seen any ill effects from them. Nor have I had any real problems with hazers or smoke machines. During one particular show I filled (literally) the stage with fog prior to the curtain opening, and that produced a few coughs and comments - but they were from the audience, not the performers.
Oh and labrug? The link didn't work for me either... I think your "give-a-damn" is busted... :)
"Be nice to your Tech's - or they'll turn out the lights and go home!"
karlaeWed, 11 Feb 2009, 08:03 am
Well I suppose everyone has
Well I suppose everyone has had very different experiences in regard to haze and strobes.
Ive been doing theatre for a short amount of time and seem to get the worst luck with performers and audience members!
I even had an old woman complain that the audience blinder for the opening of Call Girl was too bright! To that I simply said, "well it is an audience blinder.... it's meant to do that".
You can't please everyone, but I think people (all of those who make up a theatre/entertainment show - techs, performers, stage managers, audience members) need to understand that you should pay attention to warning signs on the door to the auditorium or reconsider your involvement with the show if you think all of this is going to be too much for you lungs and eyes.
karlaeWed, 11 Feb 2009, 08:08 am
A few key points from the
A few key points from the website Labrug suggested.
Key Points
• About one in 4000 individuals has photosensitive epilepsy. Repetitive flashing lights
may induce seizures in these individuals. The flash frequency of concern is from 5 Hz to
70 Hz, with most individuals only susceptible in the range of 15 Hz to 20 Hz.
• A flashing strobe (or a close combination of multiple strobes sequenced together) must
not be programmed to flash in the 5 Hz to 70 Hz frequency range.
• Slower flash rates, and randomly flashing lights are not known to be a cause of
photosensitive epilepsy.
• Point sources of light are much less likely to induce seizures than a diffuse source of light
which covers a large part of a person's field of vision.
• To induce a seizure the light must be present in the center of the field of vision as
opposed to the periphery.
• Reducing brightness or increasing distance between a photosensitive viewer and the light
source is effective for preventing photosensitive epileptic seizures.
• Lights flashing in the distance, even in the frequency range of concern, are not known to
cause seizures when in the presence of other lights of a more natural or chaotic nature.
• The probability of inducing a seizure is greatly increased (by up to a factor of ten) if the
light source is arranged in a regular pattern, such as a raster scan image. (This would be
far more difficult to accomplish with the DMX Multi-Strobe Brik than with say, a
television image.) Stated
LabrugWed, 11 Feb 2009, 09:04 am
Another Link
Try http://www.birket.com/strobes/ then look for the Reference Heading. Underneath will be links to the article.
I have also edited the original comment.
Additionally, I have found this ... http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/newsletter/feb09_photosensitive_seizures
Which make the following interesting point--
"Photosensitive seizures can happen in people who do not even know that they have a seizure tendency, until it occurs. Light stimulation can provoke seizures, but it does not create epilepsy. Epilepsy is the tendency to have spontaneously recurring seizures, which is built into the characteristics of the person with epilepsy. Flashing lights simply provoke seizures in susceptible individuals. "
Absit invidia (and DFT :nono:)
Jeff Watkins
meagan18Thu, 12 Feb 2009, 04:41 pm
POINT OF VIEW
As a singer, if my mouth is a little bit dry it tends to dry it up. Generally its fine though. I played the wicked witch one year and had to 'melt'...therefor ALOT of smoke in the face but it didnt do anything. People who havnt been around them think its affecting them but really its just phycological.