A Musical with no applause!?

I've always wanted to either be involved with or see a piece musical theatre where there is no opportunity for the audience to applaud after songs. Has anyone ever seen such a piece, or has ever tried to stage one?

I seems to me that it is done in "straight" theatre all the time, but the presentational style of musicals and the entertainment factor enables the audience to break any tension by applauding after songs.

Any comments?

(I'm also rtying to take the convo away from Les Mis - Ahhhh)

Adam wrote:
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>>"musical theatre where there is no opportunity for the audience to applaud after songs. Has anyone ever seen such a piece, or has ever tried to stage one?"

I've seen a show where the opportunity was there, but no applause came. That probably doesn't count.


>>"the presentational style of musicals and the entertainment factor enables the audience to break any tension by applauding after songs."

Songs usually break the narrative anyway, in a similar way many monologues do, by halting the forward action and expanding on the emotion or thought process. So there is a ripple in the tension, inviting the audience to break it. Whether the tension DOES get broken by the applause is perhaps up to the performer's reaction, whether they acknowledge it or whether they "hold the moment" and then continue as if it hadn't occured. If applause occurs (or laughter also) it's usually a mistake to play through over the top of it...that will probably have the opposite effect and ruin any tension you had established, while annoying the punters who miss the start of the next lines. So the skill is to read your audience and react accordingly.

And I'm not certain why this "tension" needs to be kept? If you continually pile on the tension, not letting up for the audience or performers to take a breath, (A) you're going to tire everyone out very quickly and (B) you lose a good deal of effect that a director usually tries to establish, of pace and tempo - you need the release to emphasise where the points of tension are.


I think it's probably possible to devise a show where you achieve what you are suggesting. The ends of songs would need to be written in such a way to wind down rather than end with a bang, and to blend immediately into action, continuing the scene with dialogue and perhaps releasing the tension at other times when the audience is less likely to want to applaud. I would liken it to a film where the scenes are shot together in one long continuous take, rather than ever fading to black or cutting to another scene. But there would probably need to be a specific reason for doing so.

Interesting thought.

crg

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Actually, the best equivalent I can think of is along the lines of the concept albums by Roger Waters ..."The Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking" is a story told in song and the action never stops...he crossfades immediately into character dialogue or sound effects or the next song. A bit similar with his Pink Floyd efforts, "The Wall" (which became a rock musical movie) and "The Final Cut".

However, while void of applause on the recording, there is a magnificent build AND release of tension throughout the performance.

And on the occasions where his concerts were played live (The Wall in Berlin...) there is still the inevitable applause throughout, mainly at the end of each recognisable song.

So I don't know if you can ever really control it. If an audience wants to applaud, they will. Isn't that a good thing?

crg
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I'm not denying that applause is a good thing, great for the performers and audience, but sometimes musical theatre is seen in such a trivial light that I was wondering whether anyone has tried to produced a piece of musical theatre that didn't allow the audience to applaud and therefore reaslise they were watching a "show".

I agree that songs are like monologues, progressing the story and character, but we don't hear applause at the end of every speech do we? I believe many people aren't affected by the sometimes deep and meaningful themes in musical theatre shows, as they can distance themselves from the action by clapping.

I just believe musical theatre can do more than entertain.

Okay, of the musicals I've heard I would have to rate the following so called "classics" as the worst ever (and I know that I will be ruffling some feathers here)

1) Cats - three good songs, too much dancing and an adhoc concept. It's disturbing popularity is due to audiences world-wide behaving like sheep.
2) Sound of Music - disgustingly pure. It should have been left in the 50's with other crap like State Fair - shudder.

Now the best of the "little known"

1) Tommy - the Broadway update of the 1990's.
2) City of Angels - a bit too jazzy in parts but intellectual and foot tappingly brilliant.
3) Song & Dance - the best ever salvage job.
4) Return to the Forbidden Planet - nothing original, just a sensationally entertaining combination of comedy, Shakespeare and the sixty's.
5) Company

Of the Blockbusters, I would rate my top 10 as:

1) Les Miserables - undeniably the best.
2) Jekyll & Hyde (not a true blockbuster but it is well known amongst Warlow fans)
3) Sunset Boulevard - it got creamed by critics but is trully beautiful music wrapped in a classic tale.
4) Rent - you either love it or hate it. I didn't like it at first, but this is a musical which will forever define our times. Who knows what else Larson could have created?
5) Westside Story - it kills me to put it at five. This is a classic, and is the best show to be written before the 1980's with a close second in this category going to Carousel.
6) Chess. I love the music of this show, but I have only heard the concept album (about a million times). Tommy Korberg is just awesome - his Anthem is probably one of the best ever.
7) Miss Saigon. This show suffers as a result of the high expectations after Les Mis for Boublil & Schonberg. Great story with some awesome music, but it is not consistent. The finale is also disappointing. Bui Doi is this shows "Do You Hear the People Sing". The show has some great tunes with "Please" and "Why God" some examples.
8) Phantom. Okay, the music in this show is tecnhically brilliant with some songs verging on emotionally and rythmically devine. Music of the Night is LLoyd Webbers best male song while the layered tunes of Masquerade, Wishing you Were Somehow Here Again and the title song blow me away. Come to think of it Phantom should be higher on the list - oh well.
9) Boy From Oz. Leaves "Shout" for dead. I am somewhat biased as I am a relative of Peter Allen, but nonetheless this is such a great collection of songs by a wonderful songwriter. Allen knew how to please a crowd and a national psyche.
10) Big. Cool, fun music. Great for the new theatre crowd. (Jesus Christ Superstar also deserves a mention around this point).

i would be interested to know how many of these productions you have actually seen tommy?

cats was brilliant in its innovation and style and as for an "adhoc concept" I would rate Return to the Forbidden Planet as being one of the worst culprits of this (much more so than cats)

now it is my turn to be bias (being a distant, distant relative of jonny o'keefe) - while i did think that "shout" did not do the man too much justice in terms of depicting his life, I did not think it was fair for you to say that Boy From Oz left it for dead

Have you seen Shout?, or are you acting like the "cats" sheep that you referred to and taking the opinion of the West Australian critics?

cheeba wrote:
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>>are you acting like the "cats" sheep that you referred to...



I'm not a big fan of Cats (and I don't really like Phantom, either)...but I think you've both hit on something here - "SHEEP" !


Especially since the best suggestion I could get in a previous thread about suggestions for new musicals was "something with meat"...


Craig

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Why is it that everyone who ever responds to messages on this site does so with an immediate antagonism? I know I didn't make it clear, but I was just expressing my personal oppinion. The reference to Boy From Oz v. Shout in my post was completely out of line and I apologise to even the most distant of relatives of the wild one. I should have merely kept to my favourites and ignored everything else. Truly, I am sorry.

I appreciate your comment on Cats and the similarites you allege between it and Planet. However, what I believe is missing in Cats is a coherent and structured story. Some people like this style - in fact, millions (although I still maintain that the bulk of them are sheep) - but I became incredibly frustrated whilst watching it at the fact that audiences lost track of the characters, except one or two. There are too many down right annoying cats in it with even more down right annoying songs to go with them. I hate MacCavity and that one that does all the cleaning. Bustopher Jones is certainly not skin and bones but do we really need a song to tell us that? The chanting to herald the Jellicle Ball is, in my oppinion, one of the most annoying tracks of all time yet the song, Jellicle Cats, is simply brilliant. I guess I can account for my distaste towards the show by citing what I would call a lack of consistency - or, you could say the cringe factor. How can Lloyd Webber have created songs like Memory (one of the best of all time), Skimbleshanks the Railway Cat, the aforementioned Jellicle Cats and, to a lesser extent, Gus the Theatre Cat whilst relying on chanting, dance breaks which are way too long and reprise after reprise of the hit song? (yes I know it only happens three times). People also rave about Magical Mr Mistofelees - yes I loved it as a kid, which, I guess, brings me to my point.

The show has no substance. It is almost a cabaret. No story, no message, no real meaning. The other show I commented on was the Sound of Music. This does have a message, but really not a brave one. People often state that it's underlying anti-Nazi message or "dark side" is reason enough to lift it from it's status of "family-fun in the sun" tag. But, think of the period in which it was written and I think you'll realise that it was a "dark side" that most people could deal with because the actual threat of Nazism HAD been dealt with. I like theatre for the fact that it has the power to move people to different states of mind whether it be a drama or comedy or a mix of both, if it makes people think differently about the world then it has succeeded.

How does Planet deliver meaning? It has a story, allows adults to re-live the sixties, makes audiences of all ages laugh and not to mention become more aware of Shakespeare in the process. It has only been performed in Australia professionally once and in WA it premiered in 1999 but I'm not sure about the rest of Oz. If you haven't seen it, get along.

Innovative? How on earth is Cats innovative? How else could you present a bunch of cats, who never interact, singing and dancing? Like a book of poems (you follow?) it is just one character after another delivering us their musical monologues. Yes you need a set, and yes it is very nice but it is not a result of any great lengths of innovation. The choreography (although way too much) and makeup can be called innovative because, in 1981, it was the best in the world and no one had ever seen anything like it. (Once again, I apreciate and respect your oppinion but this is what I think)

At this point I think I should say that anything that gets people to the theatre and tapping their feet on the way home is also important. If one kid who sees Cats decides to get into theatre because he/she liked the costumes and the songs or the characters or whatever, then the millions of dollars made would be worth it.

I stand by my "Cat-cry" and my note on the Sound of Music. Your point on Boy from Oz and Shout is duly noted.

Looking forward to more debate. What else did you think of my selections Cheeba?

Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I rarely peruse this site any more.

"I've always wanted to either be involved with or see a piece musical theatre where there is no opportunity for the audience to applaud after songs. Has anyone ever seen such a piece, or has ever tried to stage one?"

On stage, don't know, but a stage version of 'Les Parapluies de Cherbourg' would do the trick, methinks.

Oh, ye gods, I've just realised that none of you oiks out there would have:
a, heard of it
b, let alone seen it, and
c, have enough grasp of the French Language to pick up any French title that wasn't Les Miserables or La Cage Aux Folles (and even then half of you wouldn't know that last one either...

'Les Parapluies de Cherbourg' is one of the greatest Musicals ever put on film, and there is NOT ONE SONG IN IT!!!!
It is all through-composed music (although more like a very extended Jazz Impro than a Wagner Musikdrama) and very powerful, starring a young Catherine Deneuve...

See it, if you can find it...

And if someone can work out how to get it on stage, I personally will love you forever...

BigWoolly wrote:
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'Les Parapluies de Cherbourg' is one of the greatest Musicals ever put on film, and there is NOT ONE SONG IN IT!!!!"



...So, would that come under the umbrella of 'musical' or 'opera' ?





(Notice that I just included a subtle French joke to amuse the children who've been playing on this site recently)


Cheers
Craig

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