MT Audition Course - help

Hi, I was just wondering if it would be possible to be accepted by a Bachelor of Music Theatre course if you have never had any official dance training. I have been in school productions and musicals, do drama and have voice lessons but I have never really taken dance lessons. I have been told that I have natural ability from a dance teacher when I went for a trial lesson and also by another dance instructor which came to my school when we had to do a dance session as part of the lesson. I am planning on auditioning for the three places that I know of in Australia that offer the course in which case, if I do get accepted, I will have to move interstate. Well it would be great if someone could perhaps tell me if there is any chance at all as I don't want to get my hopes up for nothing. Thanks.

you will find that you will be behind then if u havent had formal dance training. in saying that, you could stil get in. but these days, you need to have a bit of experience/background in dance. so if i were you, go to a "recognised" dance school and take basic jazz/tap classes. the more you can get, the better....

ps. if i were you, these would be my top 3 places to go: 1) waapa - the best in the country + a degree 2) vca music theatre foundation - starting to get a fantastic reputation 3) ballarat - has some good things about it, but not a great reputation if u were looking at music theatre degree in queensland, i would strongly say dont bother - not worth the energy....

Another great place to train in musical theater would be the Entertainment Factory in Perth. They offer an advanced diploma in the performing arts (Musical theater, they have a web site). To answer your question dancer training helps but i know many great musical theater performers who started dancing after they left school.

What about the NIDA SDA course?

the nida course?! lol! unless you want to be cut down by avigail hermann, then go for it. but she isnt the best person that you could be trained under. shop around, there are better people out there - trust me. by all means, audition for the course then do the course and see where u get! most of the people who have done the course (and i do mean the majority, not just the one offs who have had "success") have found employment because THEY have done the work after studying there, yes this was a start but wasnt a determination on the final product.... if that makes sense...

I have seen showcases from the entertainment factory and I do not recommend it. I had a friend in the diploma and it was unprofessional and distressing for him to be a a part of. As far as I know, only three graduates from their diploma course have gone on to successfully study elsewhere. However, as with most things, that's subjective. It might be the right place for you, but just so you know but the entertainment factory and somewhere like WAAPA are vastly different. I'm not sure what state you're in, but do look around for a class that offers basic jazz/tap/ballet. Any sort of dance training- formal or informal- at this point will help. Good luck!

I am a bit surprised by bb43's response for a couple of reasons. One is that there wouldn't be a uni course completed in which some individuals don't have to work further on their skills because not everyone is at the same level even though they may all pass. There is always brilliance and ordinariness. Apart from which training/learning is a lifelong process isn't it? I would have been surprised if NIDA continued a course which didn't deliver results because they value their name and reputation. I can't imagine Avigail Herman has the national dramatic institution by the the unmentionables and does what she likes. Does she? My comments are based on assumptions of course or I wouldn't be trying to source info.

From the experience of someone close to me the Queensland Course at Mackay is excellent.... despite the post above and littlebird makes excellent points

Apart from my query regarding more well known national institutional courses, I can support Glossop’s comment regarding the CQU Conservatorium M/T course at Mackay as it is one I have had knowledge of for a while now. If you take the time to check out their site, read through the staff list, you might be surprised. It may not be a “big-time” course yet and it is away from the bright lights but they are obviously consolidating some very experienced industry professionals in their ranks. It is certainly looking like a better option than it once may have been.

glossop i think you may be slightly biased as your daughter is at queensland conservatorium....

for littlebird: i know training is a life long process, but you need to be at a certain level to be able to ACTUALLY enter the industry....

I can understand your comment bb43. I don't know the circumstances influencing your comments but one thing is certain - there are so many variables in people's experiences of these situations. Isn't the old adage there's three sides to a story - yours, their's and somewhere in the middle what really happened. From what I have read, there are some impressive graduates of the NIDA SDA course, as in every major course, also many who are rarely heard from again. I do know that not all courses, no matter how great, are suitable for every person and that doesn't just apply to performing arts. Some students thrive in slightly less "prestigious" courses. Although I am not a teacher, I have a great deal of respect for them and feel that in fact, it's not the instiution that is the success it's the teachers and they don't always reside at "prestigious" institutions nor wish to teach within "prestigious" courses. Is it possible that your comment was regarding a situation in which the whole scenario just didn't click. Perhaps someone auditioned well but didn't move on from that, maybe there was a personality clash with the teacher concerned which wasn't resolved. It's a scenario one has to be able to judge with complete honesty taking consideration of all the facts, which I obviously can't do as I don't know them all. More information than you needed I know, but thought may as well throw in further thoughts. They are intended to be respectful to all concerned. Cheers

i have to disagree with you - while working with avigail isn't a cup of tea, she is a fantastic teacher. she'll always tell you the truth, even if you don't want to hear it. i don't know any of her students that have come out of the course not appreciating all that she had to teach them. and most people have had to keep refining their skills as the course is only a year long, but it definitely would have given them the tools they needed to become the performers they are today. have you actually been taught by avigail?

sorry...? biased...? I don't understand your point qw12we. It's an opinion based on knowledge. ... and I said that in my post. That's pretty well next to first hand knowledge isn't it? I didn't say it was the best course.... I don't know enough about the other courses to do that. For the money it's costing her (and me) I'd soon let you know if it wasn't a good course.... there are many links in the course to well known industry people and she's happy with the tuition and the experience. I only posted because you may have denied someone a course that I see as a valid option.... I also gave a reason why... you didn't. We researched the course well before she went and sought advice from people in the industry. I really don't understand your original post (and I don't really care) but I wanted to help the original poster.

I studied at the con in mackay, and left....as did the rest of my year group due to the lack of professionalism/structure of the course. If there was one place in particular that i would recommend not going for, its CQCM. I moved to brissy after that and studied at the con there, and I wasnt surprised at all when I heard about the reputation of CQCM from outsiders. Although it has the title of B.MUS Theatre, its not all that its worked up to be. while I had a great time when I was there, i gained absolutly nothing from it.

See that is at least a comment that seems to be based on personal experience. Are you the same poster? That's unfortunate....It would have been distressing if that was the case. I personally haven't heard any negative comments from'outsiders' (whatever they are). Just a thought though...Sometimes you only get something out of an experience comparable to what you put in.

A great friend of mine did the Cert of MT at WAAPA which she said was a fantasic course- the WAAPA BA students were just fantastic- top class performers and top class teachers. However, because she was from interstate and due to family reasons she has moved closer to home and is now doing the BA at BAPA. Whilst BAPA may have more dance component in the course, however you are divided into groups from Level 1 Beginners to Level 3 elite, as long as you can move and have rhythm. The calibre of students is the same. Teachers from BAPA have been ex WAAPA teachers. Last year WAAPA BA students did Batboy, this year BAPA BA students did Batboy- they were interprted differently both performances were as good as each other. It depends what you want out of a course- and really not all WAAPA grads are snapped up at every audition for shows, talent is talent no matter where you train- if you've got it, it will show. If you have not danced but can move

I'm a current BAPA student and I have come into the course with next to no dance training. They do stream the dance, so less experienced dancers get taught at a level that is manageable. That's not to say it isn't hard, there's a lot to learn, but you're not going to be put in classes amongst people who are way ahead of you. From what I know of WAAPA, I believe our degree has a slightly bigger humanities emphasis, but the teachers aree fantastic, and we do have the advantage that being so close to Melbourne we get plenty of professionals who are currently working in melbourne to come up and work with us. Already, two of this years graduating students have been cast in a major musical which opens next year, and all of them were picked up by agents after their Cabarets in first term. I'm mystified as to why people think that BAPA doesn't have a good reputation... The only thing that I can think of is that the course is much younger than WAAPAs and just hadn't had the time to establish a "Name". The quality of the course is great. If you need proof, come and see the graduating classes production of BatBoy (runs until this Sunday). It is awesome.

BAPA's has excelled in the past 3 years- the calibre of professionals being drawn in to teach classes is unbelievable. Apparently audition applications have been overwhelming. BAPA is the eastern states WAAPA.

Unfortuately you will always get those who are not happy with a particular course, either they are not happy with teaching methods or teachers, or course structure, whatever. I have been performing for years, and have landed roles in many musicals and currently in Priscilla. Doesnt matter where you have studied it depends on your talent and what casting directors are looking for. My training was at a dance school only in NSW and hasnt stopped me. Having said that BA's are a good training background and give you a qualification.

Does a BA course really matter. I am a dancer in Melbourne and get a few dancing gigs but I met up with this girl from Adelaide whos doing Phantom. She is amazing but she only went to a dance school. She was accepted into WAAPA but turned it down cos of Phantom, shes got a 3 yr contract. She reckons BA's are a waste of time.

Courses aren't the only way to get jobs - correct. But they do offer other things: contacts that you might not otherwise get on your own; the reputation of the course (especially if you attend one of the 'trinity') can heavily influence the types of contacts you have; you gain valuable skills which oftentimes can only be gained through a learning environment; and of course, you get the piece of paper. I know a lot of people who do course just for the actual certificate of completion. Sticky Apple Legs www.freewebs.com/stickyapplelegs Puppets in Melbourne www.thepromptcopy.com/pip My puppets www.collectzing.com/collection/137/

And another point specifically for dancers. Sure you have a job now and may do until you are in your thirties but then what? Having the degree behind you gives you a greater opportunity to become something more than just another ex hoofer trying to run a dance school. Is that all there is? Well if that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. www.tonymoore.id.au

Well, I'm in the course not because I necessarily want the degree, but I do want the training. The BA is just part of it - and will make things easier down the track if I do want to explore other careers such as teaching. Nadia, who's in Phantom, is a brilliantly talented and hard-working girl. She has the advantage over many of us that her mother is also a very successful dancer who runs her own school in Adelaide. I would speculate that she'd therefore not had to scrimp and save for a lot of her training, and that she's been lucky enough to benefit from her mother's connections. This is not a bad thing, by any means, she is still a great performer, but for those of us who don't have those advantages things are a bit different. Also, a three-year contract in Phantom is wonderful, but no more a guarantee of future work, or an indication of what else she may be capable of. By no means do I think that a uni degree is the only way to success, as I said, there are no guarantees in this industry. But a BA is definitely not a waste of time, and in order to achieve that qualification, you must prove yourself in many different aspects of performance and academia. Try everything. All education and all experience will be of value.

Hum, I think its great that Nadia has a contract with Phantom. I dont wish to sound rude but she is very short, like about 5 foot. She is extremely talented but so are thousands of others. She also may be type cast for this part but what happens in the future. Just like Chloe Dallimore, she is 6 foot, roles are very few and far between. I would rather have a few more credentials on my CV rather than my mothers dance school. No disrespect.

Rachel Beck is short but I dont know how short. I think that unless your 5'5"to 5'9" chances are slim for regular professional touring musicals. Unless your type cast, a career in musicals is not a good prospect.

What..? .Really... ? just like Kristin Chenowith???? She's 4 foot 11.... and she appears to be doing fine (musicals,movies and TV)

Kristin Chenoweth, Rachael Beck are all exceptions to that rule! Look at the ensemble of any major show and you will see that the majority will fit a certain 'type'. No, this is not a hard and fast rule and there will always be exceptions, but in general it's true. And for Kristin, well, I'm not a fan, but she is quite freakish with those steel vocal cords. She seems to only ever play one 'type' though, doesn't she?

To a point.... but some of the less well known classical stuff doesn't fit the more well known Kristin mould Just pointing out there are exceptions to the rule... and sweeping generalisations are not my favourite things Another exception to the rule is the lead in the new 'Hairspray' mnovie Talent always rises... but you are correct... it is harder for those outside the norm

As a professional auditioner for many years lol with few jobs under my belt let me say that unless you are 5'5" to 5'9" your chance of a career in musical theatre is slim. Yes you may get the odd part here and there eg like the young girl Nadia.....it will be great to have on your CV but we are talking a CAREER in MT. Those that fit the height category tend to appear in many musicals, maybe not lead parts but they earn enough to keep themselves afloat and can call this a career. One bit parts are not careers. When you start auditioning you will understand what I mean. Education in MT is a must. Problem is... many think they are too good and know it all already and dont need educating but a good institution can bring you down to size and work with you.

I don't think that's quite true. If you're short it's harder to get parts in the chorus and start out the way most people do- i.e., doing the hard yards jete-ing up the back while you wait for the director to throw you a line- but theatre isn't exactly about portraying the realistic, and I've seen plenty of shows with a pocket rocket (i.e. short person) playing the romantic lead. For some people it may be harder- eg, if you're both short and very thin with no boobs or hips or anything- but for people like Cheno and Rachel Beck it works for them because they're basically tiny little women. I say, go shorties, go! There are heaps of shorties in the WAAPA BA right now, and have been- in fact last year the shortest girl in BA had three prominent roles in all their productions.

and the shortest girl, as far as i am aware, hasnt had much work since...

One of the previously mentioned shorties is in New York right now getting work. So yeah...instead of shooting everyone down, maybe you guys could actually NOT make sweeping generalisations and help other people out. My height has never held me back and I'm proud to be the size I am. Your experience is obviously different to mine but I feel like shorties succeed.

I agree ... good post

Humm Short and tall ppl do get work just not as much as if you are average height. As for succeeding in Australia-Height hAS stopped me many times. Universal studios, Disneyland, Cruise Ships, chorus and parts in musicals. At the auditions it wasnt 'dont call us we'll call you,' I got told outright my height was a problem in nearly all instances. Dont get me wrong I have been in a couple of musicals but my height does not allow me to make an ongoing career out of it Do I take the chance to venture to NY cos they are taking shorties. Great friend I did MT with is on Broadway as we speak and all women in his show are not short but 5'6 and above, he said that is the norm in most shows.

I reckon they gave the shortest girl those roles at WAAPA cos they will be the last she will get lol. Whats with that Nadia chick putting crap on WAAPA. I didnt realise she got into WAAPA and turned it down till yesterday. Now she doesnt need MT training cos she knows it all. yeah right you dont have to put crap on WAAPA

I reckon they gave her the roles because she's uncommonly talented. Seriously, people, this is just another way for actors to cut across each other. Humility is a rare and precious commodity in this business and I'm sick of meeting people who think they're the Oxford Dictionary of Music Theatre. You think one thing, I think another. That's okay with me. Just because I think it doesn't make it true, and the same goes for you. This whole debate is lame. As for the accusations on this famous Nadia person, if she did "crap on WAAPA" just because she's gone straight into the industry, it's her loss and someone else's gain. As I've heard, the BA in Music Theatre is as much about the experience as it is the bit of paper you get at the end. If someone is willing to pooh-pooh that, it's their own problem and a bad attitude won't get them anywhere. (Note: This isn't a personal attack on Nadia, just my response to the allegations. I have no idea who she even is.)

OOOOHHHHH Dont let her hear you say shes an uncommon talent. OMG she would flip. She is a star and everyone knows her and asks for her autograph in the streets. She was so well known in Adelaide before Phantom just ask her lol. To me the piece of paper like a BA is beneficial cos MT is not only about performing but teaching, administration etc. It is a recognised qualification that can get you places. The industry is tightening up on teachers who dont have any piece of paper whether its a certificate, diploma or BA. If you want a job in this area you need the study Im sure the Phantom cast have worked her out already, leopards never change their spots. Ppl wouldnt talk about her if she had a nice personality but being so full of yourself isnt a good trait. She has a great talent admittedly but her head doesnt fit through the door lol